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Saturday, August 2, 2008

Camel SNUS and Marlboro Snus: US Tobacco Users Being Made FOOLS of by Big Tobacco: Part 3 of 3

Susan (Ivey) Cameron; CEO of Reynolds American

And now we come to the part of the this series that I have really been dreading.

You probably suspected something was odd since Part 2 came out very quickly after Part 1. Well, I admit it: I've been purposefully been putting off writing Part 3. 

While I would rank Camel SNUS above Marlboro (not snus), it's still sub-standard, over-priced, and doesn't last long at all. It doesn't come anywhere near the taste or nicotine hit of even 3rd tier Swedish Snus.

No, my two reasons for dreading writing this last article has nothing to do with Camel SNUS. The first and main reason I'm saving for the very end of this article. The second reason is actually personal.

_____ Click HERE to Read More _____



Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Snus Central Founder



Clicking this link will take you to the TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE of EVERYTHING I'VE WRITTEN ABOUT SNUS on The Unloading Zone! Articles, Reviews, and MORE!

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16 comments:

B said...

mr. ULZ,,,, Great Read....thanks for the time spent researching, and writing.

Tried Camel SNUS in Portland last December. Still have 11 of the original 20 portions. When someone on a ryo site mentioned that he had tried snus and that it was great, I thought he was crazy...turns out he was using Swedish Snus...

I tried it and went from a pack a day of smokes for 40 years to one cigarette in the last 3 weeks. Swedish snus is great stuff.

Thanks again.....B

Anonymous said...

Very informative. Thanks Mr. ULZ for your opinion and your voice. I did not notice that distinction. I am looking forward to my snus coming in the mail through the merchant you recommended (buysnus). I have tried all flavors of the SNUS stuff, and I gotta say that I am excited for the authentic stuff. I thought that original SNUS tasted like sweet tea, mint like toothpaste, and spice like cinnamon hard candy. I wonder if it's a conspiracy to get snus banned altogether. Create an inferior product that is "cool," market it to young folks, make it easy for kids to get their hands on it, make parents scared of risks of SNUS and tobacco... Try to regulate it... Get tobacco banned...

It's all a bunch of garbage. I'm kind of sad that what I've had in my mouth for the past week was an inferior imitation. I feel cheated. Yet, I have a parcel of nine snus tins on their way to sunny California.

Thanks again mate.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Anonymous!

You almost hit the nail on the head in your analysis of tobacco regulation....in fact, you're so close, I almost didn't want to publish your comment right away because it steals the thunder from my next post on what will happen if Waxman's bill becomes law :-).

But you hit two critical points dead on: "children" and "flavored snus".

That's why it's so important that tobacco users learn the TRUTH about Swedish Snus including the reality of "reduced harm". It's critical that those using Camel SNUS, Marlboro snus, or other knock-offs using the snus name learn and TRY Swedish Snus so they know what's at stake.

Come back and let me know what you think of Swedish snus once you get try some of your inbound shipment...especially compared to the so-called snus you've been forced to use up until now.

And ENJOY!!!!!!

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Oh and one postscript to my comment above: Never forget and Always respond to the issue of children and any kind of tobacco:

IT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL IN ALL 50 UNITED STATES TO SELL OR DISTRIBUTE ANY FORM OF TOBACCO PRODUCT TO MINORS!

Anonymous said...

I found Tourney Snus here in Michigan. Does anyone know if that is a real swedish snus product that is properly pasteurized? I am only an occasional user and haven't wanted to invest in buying an entire roll of swedish snus without trying it and am worried I wouldn't use it quick enough to use it while it's fresh. The Tourney product makes me nervous because to me Tourney is synonymous with low-grade cigarettes. But the product states that it is "genuine swedish snus" and "Made in Sweden"

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr. ULZ, this is the second Anon that posted. Thank you for your comment. I look forward to reading your latest article.

I got my order from BuySnus, and I've got to say... Swedish snus is an acquired taste :) Perhaps I was expecting those sweet, diplike flavors from Skoal.

I have to say that the salty-earl-grey tea features of General or Skruff Stark kind of threw me off guard. But now, I've come to appreciate it more. I can actually taste tobacco in here while it stays cheeked. I'm doing portions now (for the ease of use at work and for play), but I can't wait to try some of the lös stuff.

So far my favorite is General Original Portions. I'm still looking to finish this can so I can crack open the Lucky Strikes Original Portion, General Onyx, and Jacobssens. I've been smoking cigarettes for about 6 years now (since I was 16, now I'm 22), and have been trying to look for something that wasn't as expensive or harmful for my health. I'm glad I found snus.

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the flood of comments Mr. ULZ, this is #2 (this will be my nickname for posting on your site, from now on... not to be confused with solid waste...)

Triumph is apparently made by Lorillard in partnership with Swedish Match. Do you have any opinions on this or have you tried this? And as the previous poster mentioned, what about Tourney?

Kindly,
#2

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Anon, Anon2, and #2!

You could use your real FIRST names...no one would know who you are :-).

I haven't forgotten about you!

Unfortunately (for us), this is when pretty much all of Europe including Sweden takes LONG vacations. It's slowing me up getting answers from over there.

Answering your questions in order:

1. Tourney Snus: have emailed people in the business in Sweden. Waiting for their replies. Also, see comment #3.

2. You can stay anonymous since you've been smoking since you were 16 which is illegal. (actually, I started at 13 myself). BUT NEITHER ONE OF US CONDONE, ENCOURAGE OR SUPPORT THE USE OF ANY TOBACCO PRODUCTS BY MINORS. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR ADULTS. CHILDEN USING THEM IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

(in the upcoming tobacco wars once H.R. 1108 becomes law, the anti-tobacco Nazi's are going to use "the children" as their main weapon.)

On a more pleasant note, General Portion was my first taste of Swedish snus and since I had only tried the original Camel SNUS before that, I was blown away by the taste. I'm glad you're enjoying it! Trying different brands/types is half the fun.

3. #2: Forwarded your question on Triumph to Swedish Match as I don't know. Lately there seem to be a lot of "snus experts" that have no clue what they're talking about roaming the Internet. Let's see what Swedish Match has to say.

As to Tourney Snus, aside to my answer in #1, if it actually says "made in Sweden", unless they're lying, it HAS to conform to the Swedish government's regulations and standards for snus as a food product. That would mean it is pasteurized. Check the expiration date though. For all we know, they went out of business in 1955 and that snus may not taste too good.

But lets see what I can find out from Sweden...when they're back from the beach :-).

Sincerely to you all,

Mr. Unloadingzone ....although that "Mr ULZ" is really starting to grow on me...but only for friends like you!

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

To #2: Received an interesting Meebo IM tonight. Apparently there are gas stations in Georgia giving away free cans of Triumph with the purchase of a pack of cigarettes.

No refrigeration: the snus is in a box under the counter. The can says manufactured in Sweden by Swedish Match and imported in Greensboro, NC!

It's dryer than Camel SNUS: don't know if it was intended that way or it's just from sitting out in the heat.

I emailed a redacted transcript of the IM to Swedish Match, both US and SE for comment.

I'll keep you and everyone else informed.

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

brans said...

Dear Mr. Unloadingzone guy :-P i have read almost all of your articles on snus and SNUS and Snus and hell maybe if SnUs lol and i agree with you entirely on nearly everything .

what your doing here is great , your giving great advice and raising awareness.. I LOVE IT!

i agree that Swedish snus is way better than any of the camel "SNUS" but i was commenting to let you know that i use the website www.northerner.com for my snus purchases. i have done a great deal of research and i found that northerner is cheaper than the snus site you advertise for even though your site offers that 10% discount.

my purchase with northerner was 3 dollars cheaper on shipping and my snus was approx. 30-50 cents cheaper than the buysnus.com making my grand total of 10 dollars and some change about 5 dollars cheaper for the same snus i was (going) to purchase on buysuns.com

also they have a slightly wider variety of snus and even some other random items for sell .

Just letting you know!

devoted reader
-brans

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi brans!

I'm very familiar with Northerner. Price wise, I read a post somewhere that says depending whether you buy by the roll or the can and then factor in shipping, Northerner will be cheaper, one way; Buysnus.com the other (I don't remember which). But I've noticed an increase in prices from both and I'm watching BuySnus.com carefully.

The Swedish Government has raised the tax on snus 170% in the last year , plus the dollar going down the drain in value, prices are going up.

I don't just write about snus, I LIVE with a portion in my mouth all day and even pop one in at bedtime! I feel your pain!

And on selection, you're right: Northerner does have a couple of snuses I wouldn't mind trying either. But BuySnus added some new ones too.

There were three determining factors for me in standing by BuySnus.com.

1. Hands-down, for YEARS, they have the best reputation for customer service, period. I'm not saying anything against Northerner, I just kept hearing positive about BuySnus.

More important, I experience it myself all the time. I ask them questions; they answer the next day.

Last night, I walked a first time snus buyer through his initial selection of snus's to try. (remember how much fun that was the first time we did it?) Anyway, his 10% discount didn't show up. I told him to check out anyway; I would take care of it.

After he checked out, I sent BuySnus an email and went to bed.

This morning, I received an email back from BuySnus.com telling me that they had credited his account the 10%, checked the code on my site to make sure it was right (it was) and then checked their own system and found a tiny bug in the discount program!

They fixed it and apologized very strongly. I think they threw an extra can or two in my reader's order too.

Customer service is VERY important to me. I'm not going to recommend ANYONE; discount or not, unless they take care of my readers. Buysnus.com has never let me down.

2. BuySnus has the affiliate program so that I can offer the 10%discounts to my readers. Nobody including Northerner does.

3. The final reason I recommend BuySnus is that I have never experienced or ever heard of anyone NOT receiving their order.

Apparently, Northerner had a really bad reputation a few years ago for either damaged packages or packages getting snagged in Customs. I'm not hearing that except once in a long while now and I do know people that shop Northerner and are happy.

There are some REAL rip-off dealers out there and Northerner is definitely NOT one of them.

So if Northerner is treating you right and you're happy with them, by all means use them!

But for me, especially if I'm recommending a e-Store to my readers, Buysnus.com has set a VERY high bar to jump over.

Until and unless I see another company perform as well as they do over a long period of time, I'm personally going to recommend them.

And I am glad to here positive feedback on Northerner. I appreciate the info as I'm sure everyone here does.

Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you're here!

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

Big Chris said...

A good read.

At first I thought your walk-through of the Camel SNUS FAQ was a bit pedantic and needlessly fault-finding... but then I thought to myself that, well, someone actually does need to go step by step through it and pick out exactly how they are purposefully obfuscating the distinction between genuine snus that a Swedish citizen can pick up in a gas station and what is being sold here by Camel as 'snus'.

I have to say that I am at least partially grateful for Camel/Marlborough that they are increasing the awareness of snus - afterall, if they hadn't, chances are that I would have never heard about it. I even enjoyed the first few pouches.

But that being said, the appreciation only goes so far as to acknowledge that the American snus lead me to find the real, quality, highly-enjoyable Swedish snus.

It it infuriating to no end that P.Morris makes and sells one of my favorite snuses (the 1847 original portion) but then purposefully chooses to sell the COMPLETELY INFERIOR "Camel SNUS" here in the US. Why?! Why?!

It is amazing how fast snus catches on. I'm also from Dallas, and several of my friends, all of us being long-time smokers (2 years for a couple of us, 10+ years for most of us) have just suddenly picked up snus, since it is by far a more attractive nicotine delivery vehicle than being a rancid smokestack.

It started by myself and another friend looking at websites like this when we were researching more about snus.

Then we bought the real, Swedish products... and immediately began enjoying them and telling our friends about them - how tasty and enjoyable the portions and los are, and how easy it is to stop smoking by using snus.

Now our entire group of friends - with the exception of one hold-out friend, who still refuses to try the snus - are all snusing instead of smoking.

I think that deep, deep within RJR and P.Morris corporations, they understand and fear the power of snus and what this leads to:

1.) You easily stop smoking.
2.) You buy lots of snus, and thereby you become a snus customer instead of a cigarette customer.
3.) Being a couple hundred (!) years behind the curve, P.Morris and RJR will not be able to dominate the snus market like they do the cigarette market. Even if their 1847 snus is great, it's not my favorite, nor my most-used snus.

I believe they see that by shoring up the US customer base with the Camel SNUS and Marlborough pouches and sweet, sweet flavors they are currently selling - P.Morris and RJR hope to sway the market towards expecting this experience, which is different from the Swedish snuses, and thereby head off the overseas competition.

I can only state that this approach is doomed to failure. The only thing that might (might!) work, would be if they introduce Strong portions. As it is, the Camel SNUS and Marlborough pouches are dismally underwhelming when it comes to tobacco delivery, in my experience. The fact that they say that they have 8mg of nicotine is mind-blowing... I certainly never felt like they came anywhere close to giving the same nicotine that comes from any regular portion of any Swedish snus.

All of this is very disheartening overall, and I do fear, like you, Mr. ULZ, of where all of this is headed.

Jonas said...

Being a snus user since 20 years back, mostly general portion (not the white one) I think I can speak for most my fellow country men, that we will never ever use cigarette branded Snus. (Maybe it's a bit unfair, when we can get a huge variety of decent snus in every store, i mean if your choice is between no snus and camel snus, maybe it's still better with camel snus..?) There has been a bunch of them coming lately, like Lucky Strike put out one snus the other year and to say the least it was horrible. Nono, Long live General.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi big chis and welcome!

Thanks for all the time and thought you put into your comment. And I too thank, in my case, Camel SNUS for leading me to Swedish Snus. I also agree that PM and RJRT, to date, have been the leaders in bringing snus to the American public's attention?

But WHY? WHY in just the past 2-3 years? WHY such terrible products when, as you mentioned in you comment and I asked in Part 2 of this series, PM KNOWS how to make real Swedish Snus: the 1847?

Even more frightening from Philip Morris is why, then they tested marketed their first snus (failure), Taboka, did they pasteurize it to kill at least some of the carcinogins...they never gave an amount.

But with Marlboro snus, NOT ONCE that I could find to they EVER use the word pasteurization. They call it "dry". Does that mean it's as dangerous as chewing tobacco when it comes to cancer? And yet they call it "snus".

I have a different take on their motives, though: both RJRT and PM USA. I touched on it briefly at the end of Part 3.

I want to explore it more completely in an article of its own but it all centers around the passage of H.R. 1088 in the House, the fact that 46 million Americans that smoke cigarettes is a lot of people, revenue, and tax revenue, but is still a MINORITY of US population....especially the Voting population.

I think both companies see the hand-writing on the wall and have the inside track to know the time-frame as well. They are preparing for the future. The fact that they market the 1847 outside the US means they are taking the fight to the "enemy": real snus. Swedish snus. It's a multi-pronged attack. No more for now because this really needs to be a post, not a comment reply.

And all Swedish snus users: I checked Google AdWords keyword search statistics and there are a lot fewer of us than you may think....right now.

And that's why they're American Tobacco is starting to act...right now. We should all be afraid.

Time permitting, I'll have THAT story out by the end of this week.

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

To Anon and #2:

1. I received 1 answer so far on Tourney: they never heard of it. I'll keep you informed.

2. My friend #2! I do have the official answer from Swedish Match on Triumph.

At first, I wasn't going to post it here: Combined with the full story on the Georgia gas station distribution, I was going to hold the answer and make a post about Triumph the whole thing...it's a really interesting story all told, and would of interest to a lot of readers. I'm still going to do that BUT:

I feel guilty making you wait, so here is the exact response I received from Swedish Match US today:

"With regards to Triumph, Lorillard Tobacco Company has launched Triumph Snus in the US. Triumph is the result of a collaborative effort between our two companies. Triumph Snus is manufactured in our Gothenburg, Sweden facility. However, Lorillard Tobacco Company is responsible for importing, distributing and merchandising the product.

JUST FOR YOU, #2!

Sincerely,

Mr. Softy-Zone

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hello Jonas and welcome!

Your words: if your choice is between no snus and camel snus, maybe it's still better with camel snus..?

Truer than you know. I really have to write that article on why all of a sudden, American Tobacco has "invented" snus...

Me, I'll move to Sweden or hang myself first. I'm won't give the bastards the satisfaction of using SNUS.

There is some hope though...don't think it's all over. I really need to write that article......

But now I'm falling asleep so I leave you all. I think a Jakobssons Ice Fruit will go nicely as I drift off to sleep....

Until tomorrow,

A very tired Mr. Unloadingzone

Mrs. Unloadingzone

Mrs. Unloadingzone
"The Girl of my Dreams"