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Thursday, October 18, 2007

Marlboro & Camel: When it comes to Snus, you Lose!





Now let's talk about Snus:

What the heck IS Snus, WHERE do you get it, WHY would you want it, and most importantly (to me), why is Mr. UNZ so excited about it?

Good questions! A little background on my tobacco use first, but all you need to know at this point is Snus is a tobacco product developed in Sweden over 200 hundred years ago.

I'm going on 50 and have been a tobacco user since I was 13 (with one 5 year hiatus). Cigarettes were my tobacco of choice, although I did go through a cigar period. One thing I never got into was "chew" tobacco. The spitting was disgusting and if you swallowed it, it made you sick.

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59 comments:

Anonymous said...

Amen. Swedish snus is brilliant. The american crap isn't worth the box they sell it in. The Saab Viggen jet fighter, Ikea, cities where nobody will steal your bike (even if you don't lock it to anything!), sustainable development, and Snus - the Swedes could teach the world a thing or two about...well, about just about everything =)

randyr said...

I used to chew copenhagen. Then I switched to snus. I'm not going back.

rider1200HD said...

I tried out some of that General snus. It pisses all over that crap Camel is selling plus they give you more than Camel does and charge $1.50 less than Camel. I going to be a steady customer of the General!

Anonymous said...

I work for Camel. That store that had Camel SNUS on the counter was not an authorized SUS account. Our Snus Contract with reailers states that the SNUS must remain in the Camel Fridge until sold. Camel is going to make the pouch larger from .4grams to .6grams.

EinRand said...

Used to smoke, then switched to chew, and now Snus (Camel). I think it's great.

How many millions will die of lung cancer because of the abstain vs harm reduction fanatics?

Too few know about Snus or Vitamin D3. (VitaminDCouncil.com)
EinRand@cfl.rr.com

Anonymous said...

You sold me! I was using Camel snus but after reading this, ordered some General snus over the internet.

So explain to me why the Swedish snus manufacturers aren't all over the US market? They give you more snus per can, it tastes a lot better than Camel and especially Marlboro, and it's cheaper? It should be a slam dunk for them.

Is it politics? If not, what?

Aaron SkiMask said...

I just bought a tin of Snus to try...after reading your info I ordered 3 "Strong portion" cans of Swedish/Norwegian snus from the recommended site. I like the idea-but am disappointed in the Camel stuff-the spice flavor is good-but has 'aspartame'-esque diet soda aftertaste ! :P

Aaron SkiMask said...

I just bought a tin of Snus to try...after reading your info I ordered 3 "Strong portion" cans of Swedish/Norwegian snus from the recommended site. I like the idea-but am disappointed in the Camel stuff-the spice flavor is good-but has 'aspartame'-esque diet soda aftertaste ! :P

Anonymous said...

ok well i have been using the camel snus frost for sometime now and after reading your raves about real swedish snus i went to the website and bought the ones you recommended. Not to say that swedish snus is bad but i just like the frost taste best. Unless there is a real swedish snus out there that tastes like camel frost i'll stick with camel.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Dear Anonymous,

I must say when I first read your comment, my immediate thought was "it's RJ Reynolds marketing department again!".

While I do know of some Swedish Snus users who do use Camel Frost on occasion..."like cotton candy" and like it, I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that Camel SNUS is superior to Swedish snus.

But in re-reading your comment, it occurred to me that I MIGHT have caused your reaction.

You stated that you "bought the ones I recommended". I do state in my reviews (if I don't forget) the obvious: everyone has different tastes and my reviews are based on MY tastes. YOUR tastes may be very different.

For example, I do not like the Swedish-style snus that OffRoad makes (They're in Denmark) ...because it reminded me too much of Camel SNUS, which I dislike on taste, and am offended on how much Camel overcharges you for 15 0.6 gram pouches where most Swedish/Danish snus comes with 24 pouches weighing 1.0 gram for LESS MONEY. Unlike Swedish Snus, of that total weight, Camel doesn't tell you how much of it consists of SNUS." To me, it's just a consumer rip-off, taste aside.

If you haven't yet, read especially Part 3 of my series "Camel SNUS and Marlboro snus: Us Tobacco Users being made fools of by Big Tobacco."

Using information from the Official Camel SNUS's web site and other sources, I expose in-DETAIL the underside of Camel SNUS.

BUT BACK TO TASTE. If you like the Camel Frost better than any I suggested, take a look at the OffRoad snus product line.

They specialize in flavored snus. They have a HUGE selection of all sorts of flavors. Like Camel, they are "Swedish-Style" snus's because they're not made in or regulated by the Swedish Government.

But I WILL guarantee you that OffRoad is manufactured 1000% closer to Swedish snus than Camel SNUS!

V2, the Danish company that manufactures OffRoad makes another brand called Phantom snus. I've never tried it, but it has some big fans out there too.

Camel SNUS's taste was too artifical for my liking (because it is artificial and almost candy-like). OffRoad's flavors, to MY taste-buds, were similiar and I didn't like it.

That being said, when I posted that on a snus forum, a bunch of Swedish snus lovers came back at me saying how much they LOVED OffRoad. So everyone's tastes are different.

And Danish snus is generally milder than Swedish snus. All the Camel SNUS's are very mild so I really think you should give the OffRoad a shot. Don't buy a roll: just a can of one or two flavors that look attractive to you. Then please comment or email me back on what you think! I assume you used BuySnus.com for your Swedish snus purchase: they also carry OffRoad. Take a look, take a chance, and see what you think. You'll save a lot of money and get much more product and probably (don't know because Camel won't tell anyone) a safer tobacco product.

And if my first thought was correct and you are from RJ Reynolds Tobacco, say "Hi" to your CEO, Ms. Ivey, for me. As I mention in Part 3, I was a loyal RJRT cigarette smoker for over 30 years. It pained me to write Part 3 because of that.

Please come back anytime and I was serious about letting me know what you think of Camel versus OffRoad. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

Anonymous said...

Hey Mr. Unloadingzone. This is anonymous from earlier that said i prefer the frost taste over the swedish snus. First off my name is Eric and no i am not from any tobacco company. SO i cant say hi to anyone for you sorry. I simply am a tobacco user who came to your site while researching camel snus. I cant say that i dont enjoy the swedish snus entirely, i only ordered 2 cans and they sent me a third for free, which was a pleasant surprise:) I just like the frost taste the best so far. I understand your beef with camel and how you think they are ripping off the public, and yes i have read all your articles on the subject. I will probably continue to expand my snus experience with another order of swedish snus to see if there are other products i may like. I did notice that the snus i ordered was more moist and larger.... its just the taste that turned me off, i guess i just like the candy taste that frost gives me instead of the more tobacco flavor that was the General. I keep them in for at least an hour also so i think it is user preference on how long they can enjoy one(Camel). And of course i know everyones tastes are different and that you are going to like something different that i like. I just wish i knew what swedish snus i would like without having to order 100 cans to see what is appealing to me. Anyways thanks for your responce i just wanted to clairify that no i am not a spy or a employee of any tabacco company. Just thought i would tell you how i felt about swedish snus so far. thanks - Eric

Anonymous said...

hey its me again, Eric(anonymous) i missed reading the last part of your post until after i had replied. I will def try out the offroad and maybe some other soon so i will respond when i have tried them . ttyl

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Eric!

My fault again...I do tend to get long-winded and should have just stuck to the taste issue with you.

I'm really glad you re-read my answer and I hope you like the OffRoad!

And Please come back and give me YOUR review! You're welcome any time!

As to Susan Ivey, that fantasy ended with Eclipse and I'm sure Part 3 of my series on American Tobacco companies making fools of American tobacco users burned that imaginary bridge permanently. So sad......

RJRT employees are welcome and I know you do visit often from my analytics software. Philip Morris USA too. But so far, only one or two have left a comment identifying yourselves as such.

Special thanks to the person from Camel who let me know the pouch weight went up from 0.4 to 0.6 grams.

I wish more of you would identify yourselves...I WILL publish your comments. And I or someone else may want to post a question to you in return.

I call it as I see it. Remember, I gave the Philip Morris 1847 SWEDISH Snus an excellent review and it's one of my favorites. But Marlboro "snus"? Your own website won't say if it's pasteurized or not so it could be as dangerous as dip!

I would LOVE an answer to that and would publish it. "Dry" as you describe it does not mean "pasteurized". BIG DIFFERENCE when it comes to cancer.

So stop lurking, join in and educate us all. Or email me at theunloadingzone.blogspot.com.

You are welcome anytime!

Sincerely, Mr. Unloadingzone

Alex said...

I just recently tried snus for the 1st time when Camel sent me some couple of free coupons. I tried the spice and liked the flavor a lot. But as it's been stated the portions are not generous and the flavor doesn't last very long. After reading Mr Unloadingzone's comments I decided to use his link and order the General portion snus. By it's description of "strong and spicy with a hint of citrus" I thought this would be the Swedish snus most comparable in taste to the Camel spice. I received the General portion and when I opened it I could see the more generous portions and tell it was a higher quality product. I'm sure to experienced snus users the taste is superior to Camel's. I am not experienced however and the General portion is much too strong for my taste at this time. I like the sweet candy like taste of the Camel spice. I'm sure in time as I become more experience with snus I will be able to appreciate the stronger Swedish snus but at the moment I do like the candy like taste of the Camel spice. Is there a Swedish snus comparable in taste to the Camel spice? I appreciate any feedback on this.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex!

There is a intense discussion in the snus world as to whether there is a difference in Swedish versus American versus Norwegian tastes.

The issue goes beyond taste though. Snus was invented by the Swedish over 200 years ago. Most Americans think it's only a few years old and was developed by American Tobacco Companies.

The Swedish version of the FDA regulates snus as a food product. There are strict standards they have to meet to ensure that the TSNA's (carcinogins) are virtually non-existent. Swedish males for over the last 20 years have the lowest oral cancer rates in all of Europe despite using the most snus.

We have no real way of knowing how safe "American" snus is. For all we know, it could be as cancerous as chew.

Camel SNUS is pasteurized which lowers the TSNA's but they won't release how low nor are they required to. Marlboro doesn't even do that: they "dry" their so-called snus.

Fortunately, there are new players in the American Snus market who either have their snus made in Sweden flavored for Americans or make it to Swedish Standards here.

If you live in or around Ohio or Georgia, you can buy Triumph snus at most convenience stores and gas stations. It's made in Sweden by Swedish Match, the worlds largest snus manufacturer, but even the Original Flavor is considerably sweeter than traditional Swedish Snus: it tastes of peach. They also make a Triumph Mint. Lorillard Tobacco is the distributor here.

With Triumph, you'll get the quality of Swedish Match which is legendary but a taste more to your liking. I traded a reader in Ohio some Swedish snus for some Triumph snus to conduct an experiment.

We both started on Camel SNUS: me the original; him the Frost. I fortunately discovered Swedish snus and have used it exclusively since then.

He never had Swedish Snus before Triumph...just Camel Frost, which seems to be their most popular flavor. Unless someone will have mercy on me and mail a free Camel SNUS coupon, I'm actually going to (gulp) buy a can of Camel FROST for this experiment.

I'm doing a whole article on this so I'm not saying anymore except this to answer your question:

He said the Triumph Original "American Flavored" but Swedish made snus blew the Camel Frost out of the water! I only hope you live, live near, or know someone in Ohio and Georgia so you can get some.

Another option if you can find it is Klondike Snus by Nordic American Tobacco. It's made in America, to strict Swedish standards, but has that sweeter "American" taste. It also comes loose like chew as well as in portion pouches. I have no idea where you can find it and make sure it says "snus" on it.

Your immediate problem is that all the snus is still being test marketed in the United States.

While you can buy Swedish Snus over the internet, American snus; Swedish Style or other, as well as Swedish Snus is very tough to get over the counter right now.

Swedish Match sells General and Catch Swedish Snus in US Tobacco stores in about 17 States. You might also like the Catch Eucalyptus.

If you want to take a shot at some real Swedish, the Catch might work.

If you go to the top of the right column of this blog under HOT TOPICS, the first link has a directory of everything I've written on Snus.

There's a post called "FAQ's for folks new to Swedish Snus" In it is the link for the Swedish Match US Store locator. Hopefully you live near or in one of those States.

Triumph again is only in Ohio and Georgia right now.

Even Camel is only available in 15-17 States and Marlboro only in two. Klondike, I have no idea.


I think you'll really like the Triumph if you can get it. You also get 24 portions per can, not 15 like Camel and they're a lot bigger than Camel portions too.

And the former Camel Frost user in Ohio said the Triumph Original blew the Camel Frost out of the water. He also said the Truimph Mint was good but VERY strong. I'm afraid to open my can.

Klondike I've never tried or know where to get but it comes in spearmint, peppermint and some others so you should like it.

Otherwise, the Jakobsson's Ice Fruit over the internet or maybe the Probe Whiskey. You might also try the OffRoad: they come in a ton of flavors and BuySnus.com has a 30% off sale right now if you buy a roll (ten cans). OffRoad is too mild for me so you might just like it. If you don't want to buy a roll, just get a can or two.

I think, other than the Ice Fruit, the fruit-flavored ones I like will be too strong for you. And I only recommend the Ice Fruit because it's one of the ones I traded the reader in Ohio for and he really, really liked it.

Taste is obviously important, but Swedish or true Swedish Style snus is also (checking with my lawyers) the "Most Reduced Harm" tobacco product you can buy.

You also get a lot more portions for a lot less money than Camel or Marlboro too.

Good luck on your search! Email me or leave another comment and let me know how it works out for you.

Sincerely,

Mr. Unloadingzone

Jeremy said...

Hey Mr. Unloading,

Well as other guys in here have stated. I was introduced to Camel SNUS while working this summer and fell in love with the frost and spice. After I left portland I bought 10 cans to stock up on in Idaho. Once I ran out I found it very difficult to obtain camel products online so I searched, and here I am at this awesome site. I went to buysnus.com and ordered offroad-icemint and general portion. I was so excited to get it in the mail today, however, I was disappointed when I couldn't find that frosty spicy flavor camel had me addicted to. In fact, I think the 1 g pouches were a bit strong for me. After 1 hour with the icemint it I had to spit it out and almost threw up in the process. I just felt sick... I am afraid to try the general portion today as I do not want to throw up and carry the psychological disgust in my head that will ruin my snusing forever! I don't really have any questions as to "what taste will I like!?" i just thought I would share my experience with swedish snus though!

Alex said...

Hello Mr. Unloadingzone,


I appreciate your feedback and help on my previous post. I did find a site to order the Nordic Klondike snus. Here is a link to the site, http://davestobacco.com/ProductList.aspx
Dave's Tobacco sells the Klondike in 5 can lots and the price is reasonable, $9.31 for 5 cans. They do nail you on the shipping however. Regular postal service is $9.50. The shipping charges are more than the product cost and twice what I payed for the Swedish priority mail when I purchased 5 cans of General Portion from buysnuscom. The total with shipping for 5 cans is around $20.00 which isn't bad if the product is good. I ordered the cherry flavor and I will give you my opinion on it when I received it. Thank you again for your help.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Jeremy!

Everyone has different tastes. I'm experimenting with the Triumph Snus that Swedish Match makes for Lorillard.

The first portion of the Original and the Mint I spit out: They were just too sweet. Not in a bad way, but in a candy way and I couldn't taste any tobacco.

But by the third portion of the Triumph Original, I could taste the tobacco as well as the peach. If forced, I could tolerate and even come to like it.

Same for the Mint. I pop a portion of a sweeter snus in before I go to bed (I'm really nicotine-addicted!)instead of wasting an Ice Fruit which I like anytime.

I've always said, taste is in the mouth of the user. It seems that American menthol,flavored chew tobacco users, and flavored cigar and cigarette users are used to and like the much sweeter taste...it's what their used to.

I smoked Camel Lights or Turkish Golds for 30 years because I liked a tobacco taste. But when I switched to Reynolds Eclipse Cigarettes, I REALLY tried for 3-4 months to wean myself onto the regular flavor. I tried the menthol one day and never went back..except for once when they were out of menthol. I almost threw up after inhaling the Eclipse regular. It could just be my taste: I think it was designed by a non-smoker.

Taste aside, my beef with Camel SNUS, Marlboro snus, and some other foreign snus's is PRODUCT QUALITY AND VALUE FOR THE DOLLAR.

Swedish snus is truly the safest tobacco product on the market today. They don't even have to put cancer warnings on it anymore.

I could learn to enjoy Triumph (aside from my suspicions about the low nicotine content.)And Lorillard is the ONLY American tobacco company that is reduced harm and a good value. Triumph gives you 24 pouches at 1 Gram each.

More so Camel than Marlboro (especially Camel) go out of their way to IMPLY their product is the same as Swedish Snus.

But originally, both Camel and Marlboro only gave you 0.4 grams per pouch. They recently upped that to 0.6 but when Camel upped the content, they LOWERED the amount of pouches from 20 to 15. And Marlboro only gives you 12 pouches! And both cost more than even premium Swedish Snus.

So as a consumer, I'm offended that I'm getting ripped off on quantity and price.

And as a 30+ year smoker who couldn't quit for any length of time because I am a nicotine addict, the documented health benefits of the Swedish Manufacturing process and the fact they actually disclose WHAT is in those pouches appeals to me.

Camel SNUS is pasteurized but they refuse to release the TSNA (carcinogen)levels. They don't tell you how they flavor it, with what they flavor it with, what kind of tobacco they are using or what that 0.6 grams really is. They did tell me Camel SNUS has 8mg of nicotine, the same as regular Swedish Snus, which is a good thing. But the only other thing their SNUS FAQ's are emphatic about (in all capital letters) is DON'T SWALLOW THE POUCH! with no explanation. That's a little scary.

Marlboro "snus" is even worse to the point where several researchers have demanded they stop calling their product snus.

It is NOT pasturized..it is "dried". Who knows what the TSNA levels are? For example, Ettan Swedish Snus has a TSNA level of 2.8. Offroad and Phantom, Snus made in Norway by V2 has TSNA levels of 0.7.

In America, Copenhagen has a TSNA level of 41.1, Skoal is 64.0 and Silver Creek is 127.9! BUT, Timber Wolf is 7.5 and Skoal Bandits Straight's TSNA's are 8.2.

IF YOU WERE A DIPPER/CHEWER, WOULD KNOWING THE ABOVE MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON YOUR BRAND SELECTION? OR AN AMERICAN-BRAND SNUS USER??????????

They not only put .06 gr of "snus" in a can, but they ONLY GIVE YOU 12! As to the flavoring, from the way they describe it, it sounds to me like they make one vat of generic, unflavored "snus". As it goes down the assembly line to be injected into the pouches, the pouches contain a "flavor strip" (think Listerine breath strips) and depending on the flavor they are manufacturing that day, that's the pouch with the matching "flavor strip". And we DO know, thanks to studies, that Marlboro "snus" contains 20% LESS nicotine than Swedish or even Camel!

They want you using BOTH Marlboro snus AND Marlboro cigarettes for as long as possible. Once cigarettes are banned, they'll up the nicotine content.

So it's not as much taste (although to me, I prefer Swedish but I'm throwing my Triumph out either) as QUALITY INGREDIENTS, AMOUNT OF INGREDIENTS, HEALTH RISKS OR BENEFITS, DECEPTIVE MARKETING, especially by Camel...Olga the Swedish Dressed e-spokesperson holding up a can of Camel Frost in what looks like SWEDEN?.... and VALUE FOR THE MONEY.

When I smoked, I chose Camel over Marlboro for the taste and value. When I switched to Eclipse, another Reynolds product, it's because while still dangerous, was healthier than conventional cigarettes and didn't have that "smell" that so offends non-smokers.

That's why my first can of snus was the first generation Camel. It wasn't just the coupon..the clerk had Marlboro coupons too. But I trusted RJ Reynolds, was loyal to them for over 30 years, and when I discovered Swedish Snus (ironically looking for an on-line tobacco store which would sell me the Camel SNUS cheaper) I FELT BETRAYED.

The profit margins on Swedish Snus are a lot less than on cigarettes. Camel and Marlboro want the best of both worlds...snus at cigarette profits. Susan Ivey, you and Reynolds America, RJRT, and Camel as a brand BETRAYED A LOYAL 30+ CUSTOMER!

I'm going to try a can of Camel Frost to see why it seems to be their most popular, but just for research. Triumph I won't buy again until I know the nicotine content.

Maybe Waxman's bill making all smokeless tobacco a regulated substance and putting it under FDA oversight ( if done properly), isn't such a bad idea after all.

Thanks, Jeremy! I'm going to make a post of this. And don't throw out your Swedish just yet. As I learned, if you can get passed the first 3 portions of anything, it's usable. It won't be your favorite and you may not buy it again, but it would be a shame to waste the money you spent.

Taste is in the mouth of the user.

Safety, value, knowing what your putting in your mouth: That's the manufacturer's responsibility.
Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Alex said...

Hello Mr. Unloadingzone,

I received the Nordic Klondike snus that I ordered today. I got the cherry flavor and my opinion is that this product is as close to a combination of the Swedish and Camel snus that can be found. I opened the can and could immediately smell the sweet cherry flavor. The portions look similar to Swedish snus but weigh about the same as the Camel. One can has 20 pouches and the net weight is .475 ounces which converts to .67 grams per pouch. While the product is much milder and sweeter than the Swedish snus it is still much stronger and not nearly as sweet as the Camel spice. I mean the Camel is really sweet just like candy and I don't think there is another product that will give you that same taste. I think you would like the Klondike but I would not recommend it to someone like Jeremy who got ill from the Swedish snus. The Klondike may be too strong for him. I do have one concern. I'm sure it was stated that the American Nordic Klondike snus was manufactured using the Swedish pasteurization process to remove the TSNA's (carcinogins.) The Klondike is the first snus product that I've seen that has the waring that the product may cause mouth cancer on the label. If you have any feedback for me on that I would appreciate it.

Thank you,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex! Great to see you back!

So far, I've tried both of the Triumphs and I bought (yes bought) a can of Camel SNUS Frost for an article I'm about to write.

Right now I'm nervous about Klondike. Their press releases are exciting as anything concerning TSNA's and Swedish-Style manufacturing, and they are a spin-off of a big Swedish snus producer. But I haven't been able to find it to try it. I've only had two readers email me on it: you and one who said it didn't taste so good. Of more concern to me is an industry friend in Sweden says he may have reason to be "concerned" about how they're making it.

I'm going to address that in the article I'm about to start which is an open letter to Camel SNUS.

Some issues apply to all American Manufacturers.

As to taste, I'm coming more to the conclusion, having met spoken or email/comment communication and by testing, that it's not so much a question of the taste of Swedish, Norwegian, or even American Snus as applied to a COUNTY generically, but by what each individual is used to and what each individual likes.

Since snus is really a new concept to most Americans: 2-3 years old, they're accustom to how domestic product tastes....regular or menthol re: cigarettes.

Cuban Cigars are indisputably the best tasting on the planet for a number of reasons. But to someone from ANY country who has grown up smoking Blunts or White Owl's, they're either going to say "This is Unbelievable" to their first Cuban cigar....or spit it out and say "This tastes like S--t!"

In time they could adjust, but memory of the White Owl taste has to fade.

Bottom line: there's room for everyone. I love Swedish Snus. But the Triumph isn't so bad when I have a sweet tooth now. Even the Camel Frost....I'll save that for the article. I'm going to go write it now.

I hope Jeremy saw your answer. The next best thing to tasting it yourself is having someone who has tasted the same things you have compare it against those

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Alex said...

Hello again Mr. Unloadingzone,

When I first tried the Klondike yesterday it seemed strong to me. I had been using the Camel spice on a daily basis. I went one day without using any Camel and today the Klondike doesn't taste too strong at all. Actually it's very mild and sweet compared to the General and other Swedish snus I've tried. The fact is that the Camel is so sweet, well the spice at least, that anything is going to be too strong and tasteless if you put it in your mouth right after you've had the Camel in your mouth. Take a break for a day or two from the Camel and it's a lot easier to adjust to another snus like Klondike. I am still worried about the warning of possible mouth cancer on the Klondike label. I haven't smoke cigarettes nearly as long as you did but I do have somewhat of a nicotine addiction and I am looking at snus as a safe alternative. I understand about the Cuban cigars. My father-in-law actually had a few in his freezer that he had kept since they were legal in America, back in the 60s I guess. He decided to share one with me. I lit it and got sick. I didn't want to seem unappreciative so I told him I wanted to save it for later and put it out. As soon as I left I threw that cigar away. He would have killed me had he known. Anyhow anything you find out about the Klondike's TSNA/carcinogen levels would be very appreciated.

Thanks again for your feedback,

Alex

Jeremy said...

Hello Mr. ULZ and Alex,

It's great to see both of you replied with feedback. I'm glad I found this site, not only for the buttload of information available but feedback I can receive instantly from classic snus users.

So as I discussed before, I have a General Portion (very tobbaccoy) and Offroad Mint. And because I've gone through like 10 cans of Camel SNUS - I would say I have a mild psychological addiction if anything. I enjoy the relaxness nicotine brings without having to spark up a bowl of marijuana! :)

I continue to use about 3-4 pouches per day, usually doing class when I'm bored or need to stay awake. But as soon as about 35-45 minutes hits, I get the taste of tobbacco saliva and my bitter tastebuds instantly reject it. As soon as I can taste that, I usually throw it out and have to get something in my mouth (such as a mint or water) to wash it the bitter taste out.

I do understand your beef with American SNUS companies. They are about capitalism and thats about it. They don't care about the health of the users, as long as they got a bankroll comming, they don't give a shit. I have offically "converted" to swedish snus you could say because well... I don't want mouth cancer!

I just wish I could find the sweetest/maybe mildest snus that Sweden has to offer me. I hate the original camel snus, but love the frost and spice taste.

I like the article Alex posted about the Klondike, can you possibly post a link to that for me and maybe I could give that a shot, the lack of knowledge of carcinogins does raise some doubts and suspicions though, its worth a shot.

Also MR. ULZ, if you have any other suggestions for flavors now that you know what I'm about, that would be great. I really want to try the honey and strawberry that V2 makes but can't find it without buying the entire damn roll!

Thanks for everything and your speedy responses!

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Jeremy!

The thing is, Alex is right. I did write the article the other day based on my looooong reply to your question.

To be fair to RJRT, the day I wrote the article I stopped using Swedish snus the night before and exclusively used the Camel Frost for the rest of that evening and the entire rest of the next day to clear my taste-buds.

After my Triumph experience, where I spit out the first portions too because they were so sweet, I found I adjusted to them after a while.

They will never replace Swedish flavor style snus for me nor would the Frost, but maybe because we're getting the nicotine, the brain lightens up on taste a little. I don't know.

The Camel Frost can says "wait for the tingle". The first portion I had burned, not tingled, and was virtually tasteless.

But the more portions I did, the more I got used to them. The taste seemed stronger and I didn't get that burning...or even a tingling sensation after that.

They don't last very long but they do say that on the can. I went even as far to say, if forced to use them, I could based on taste.

The reason I haven't published that post yet is I have a dilemma.

I wrote it as an open letter to Susan Ivey and Dan Delen, the top Executives at Reynolds America and RJRT; and to their SVP of Marketing because he worked on Eclipse cigarettes too which I was their biggest fan of.

I let them know my feelings, but I also tried to keep it cordial and even gave them some advice as a former 30+ year RJRT customer.

As I was proof-reading it one last time before publishing it, I suddenly got very dizzy in a way I never had before. And it didn't pass.

I had to lay in bed for 5 hours before I felt back to normal.

I have a snus portion, in this case Camel SNUS Frost, in my mouth pretty much all day every day...I even pop one before I go to bed.

So I was using Camel Frost about 10hours continuously the day I wrote the post and about 2 hours the night before.....but that would have been the same case with Swedish Snus only I would have been able to use less portions.

I went back into the post and added that experience to it.

I clearly said, and I don't know; if the Frost had anything to do with the attack or if it was a virus or who knows what?

But I also said that not knowing the ingredients, who knows if I'm allergic to something in it?

All I know is, whatever caused it never happened before. And hasn't happened since. I also have not done any more Frost because I'm afraid to now.

But when I re-read the new version, I could see them interpreting it as a deliberate setup: first saying as I got used to the Frost, it was usable, then (considering how they parse words on the CamelSNUS website) implying it almost killed me.

That wasn't why I wrote it; I feel like I should say something; but I don't want them to dismiss the entire post as just a stealth attack piece.

So it's sitting unpublished on The Unloading Zone. I really don't know what to do.

But it does prove the point that to the nicotine addicted, you can get used to the taste of almost anything....frankly there is some Norwegian snus I threw out because it tasted so bad to me. But others love it. Maybe if I had forced a few more portions....

I'm not sure how to advise you. You may want to look at the mini-portions. They still have more snus in them than the Camel, but only a little. And they come in some interesting flavors.

The OffRoad, for now at least, only comes in that promotional roll with the flavors you want to try. They may be available individually down the road if V2 gets enough positive feedback on them.

I don't remember what State you live in, but Swedish Match does sell over-the-counter in tobacco stores in about 17 States.

They make a General Wintergreen and apparently a Spearmint now (I called Up in Smoke, my local Swedish Match dealer, for a price update for the post). But before I got used to them, those first portions of Frost were so mild I could barely taste them.

So the General may be too strong for you, even flavored. On the other hand, a lot of former Frost and Triumph users love the Wintergreen.

The Triumph was very sweet to me; way too sweet at first but still too much like candy for my liking. If you know anyone in Georgia or Ohio where Lorillard is test marketing them, see if you can get a can of at least the mint but you might like the original too.

It tastes very strongly of peach and I couldn't taste any tobacco until I had done about 10 portions and gotten used to them.

As to the Klondike, I still haven't seen it or heard of it around here. Alex has a link (in text form) in one of his responses to a tobacco store that mail-orders Klondike.

As a policy, I don't post hot-links to dealers I don't know or have never done business with. I almost deleted it from his post, to be honest, but I know he was trying to be helpful and not slip in an advertisement. You can copy and paste that text into you browser address bar and it will take you there.

There are two reasons I have Comment Moderation turned on. One is that a ton of people try to sneak advertising links into blog comments: usually to porno sites or virus/malware injecting sites, so most bloggers will check and not post those.

But the main reason is I get comments all the time on posts I wrote a year ago. I want to read them and respond; to those and as many as well as the current ones as best I can. With instant comment posting, I wouldn't know the comment was there so I wouldn't be able to read it or respond.

If someone takes the time to comment, I'm at a minimum going to read it but usually respond. I appreciate your views, your effort, and if I can help with a question, I want to.

So another very long answer and not the one you were looking for, I'll bet.

It's just that, based on the first couple of Frost portions, there is nothing that mild I've ever had.

The mini's may be worth a look at though. Or check Swedish Match's website and click on the store locator tab on the top. The link I have in the FAQ's was changed and I haven't had time to update it....because I'm working VERY hard on something you're REALLY going to enjoy.

It's slow going to do it right though, but very very soon........

And whatever snus you find, don't judge it by the first portion. Unless it makes you puke, tough it out a little. We nicotine addicted seem to adjust.

Sincerely, Mr UNZ

Alex said...

Opps! Sorry for posting that link to the Klondike snus again Mr. UNZ. I read your post but somehow missed what you said about putting links on your site. Sorry about that. I was just trying to help Jeremy out.

Regards,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex!

I understand. No problem. The real problem I had with that last comment was your "solution" of combining the Camel with the General. I'm still puking! :-)

I think I can also safely say that you are the only one on the PLANET who ever even thought of trying that. Very original....but I have to go puke again!

Sincerely,

Mr UNZ

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Alex, one more thing.

General does make a line specifically described as "mild". If you read the other product descriptions at buysnus, some will also describe their taste as mild.

I like a strong tobacco taste so those are the types I usually use and review.

It's all about experimentation, your individual tastes, and what your priorities are.

One of the reasons Eclipse cigarettes struggle in the market is because they do take getting used to after years of smoking regular cigarettes. It might have been easier if I started with the menthol, but I had never been a menthol smoker.

But my biggest priority was getting my nicotine AND getting rid of that cigarette odor on by cloths, hair, breath, etc.

It was detrimental in the professional world, the social world, and my wife hated the smell so I had to smoke in the garage at home out of respect for her.

With Eclipse, I could actually smoke in the bathroom off my study without it bothering her and I didn't reek of cigarette smoke, thus offending the anti-smoking Nazis.

There was a health benefit too which played a factor and my lungs felt better, but no where ever remotely near the benefit of getting my nicotine through properly made Swedish/Swedish style snus.

So now nicotine, health (sorry, reduced harm) and taste are my concerns.

Swedish/Swedish style snus address them all.

The others? Who knows and I'm not going to risk it.

Sincerely, Mr. UNZ

Alex said...

Greetings Mr. UNZ, Jeremy,

lmao about my comment on combining the General and Camel snus. Well you know Mr. UNZ whatever works. To me it was much better than the General alone. I just couldn't handle the General, like Jeremy it make me ill. I had purchased 5 cans being new to snus and being naive. When I read the description on the General as having a 'spice taste' I just knew that was the one that would be similar to the Camel spice. Oh boy was I wrong. I didn't want to throw the 5 cans of General away so I used it with the Camel spice and that made it bearable to me. I did try another Swedish snus, Göteborgs Rapé White Portion. This is described as ' mild with a certain sweetness' on the buysnuscom website. It is the only snus on the site that has the word 'sweetness' in it's description. Again, like the General, the Göteborgs Rapé White Portion was way too strong for me. The Klondike is perfect for me and I think Jeremy will love it. I can't believe I thought it was strong when I 1st tried it on Wednesday. It is mild, sweet and tasty. I have a tin of Camel spice here but have not used one pouch the past 2 days, only the Klondike. Again I got the cherry flavor and love it. I can't find anything on the carcinogen levels of the Klondike. The only information I can get is from the press release when American Nordic announced it's release. Here is an excerpt from that press release:

"Klondike Snus is the first loose snus brand manufactured in the U.S., utilizing the Swedish Snus Process, which will make snus available in popular Fine Cut and Long Cut forms. Both Fine Cut and Long Cut are available in Wintergreen, Peppermint and Straight flavors."

They state in a press release that the Klondike is manufactured using the Swedish process and I have to believe it's true. Surely the wouldn't lie in a press release like that. If they did they would subject themselves to huge lawsuits. Having said that I can only assume that the Klondike has carcinogen levels similar to the Swedish snus and lower than the American snus like Camel. As far as the warning label maybe American Nordic isn't required to put that on their cans but are just being more honest about it than the other snus manufactures. While the carcinogen levels may be low there is always the possibility of cancer when there are any carcinogens what-so-ever in a product, the Swedish snus included.

Sincerely,

Alex.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Alex, you did notice smiley emoticon in my reply to your post, didn't you?

It's not a solution I would have ever though of, that's for sure!

Klondike remains a mystery, apparently by choice. I'll let you know as soon as I know.

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Jeremy said...

Needless to say I took your advice and bought a roll of Cherry snus from Klondike, and wow you can tell there is a difference, as MR UNZ said its like a 200 dollar bottle of wine and a 2 dollar bottle of wine. The cherry flavor was rather disgusting to me, I just have very particular taste to snus I guess. I'm going to try some more offroad flavors since I seem to have like that one the best, and going to try some catchdry eucalyptus. I'll let you know how it goes.

General = 4/20
Offroad Icemint = 6/10
Camel Snus = 8/10 (Frost and Spice)
Klondike Cherry = 5/10

Alex said...

Hello Mr. UNZ, Jeremy,

Well first I'm sorry the Klondike didn't work out for you Jeremy. As I stated earlier to me the Klondike is like a middle ground between the Camel and the Swedish snus. I find it not nearly as sweet or tasty as the Camel but sweeter and tastier than the Swedish. Jeremy you stated: "as MR UNZ said its like a 200 dollar bottle of wine and a 2 dollar bottle of wine." May I ask what you are making comparisons to? The Klondike and the Camel or the Klondike and the Swedish snus? When Mr UNZ made that comment he was comparing the Camel and Marlboro snus to the Swedish snus. His comparisons were that the Camel, which you like very much, and Marlboro were equals to the 2 dollar wine and the Swedish, which made you ill, was equal to the 200 dollar wine. If you're comparisons are that the Camel is equal to the 200 dollar wine while the Klondike is the equivalent to the 2 dollar wine that demonstrates just how varied people's tastes are. To me Camel is tops in taste. It's as sweet as it gets but as Mr UNZ pointed out it's a bad value and possibly much more dangerous than the snus made using the Swedish process. Again too Mr UNZ finds the flavor much superior to the Camel. Are those your personal ratings in your last post Jeremy? You gave the General a 4/20 and the other snus you rated on a 10 scale. Did you mean 4/10 on the General? Again, I appreciate all the feedback and help guys. Right now I believe any Swedish snus is going to be too strong for me MR. UNZ. I'm trying to work my way up to where the Swedish isn't too strong. I think after going a while using the Klondike and no Camel the Swedish wont seem as strong and offensive to me as it did when I 1st tried it while using the Camel product exclusively. And yes Mr. UNZ, I did notice the smiley. Point taken. :)

Sincerely,

Alex.

Alex said...

p.s.

My ratings on taste only would be:

Camel spice 9/10
Klondike 7/10
General-Göteborgs Rapé White 3/10

I'm sure that Mr. UNZ's ratings would be inverted on the Camel and the General. =)

Sincerely,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Jeremy!

As I always say (when I remember to) "taste is in the mouth of taster" (or something like that). Based on your description, Klondike (especially Cherry, which I'm not a big fan of real cherries anyway) I will avoid.

I'm sure some people out there like the Klondike Cherry. I still can't get a handle on Nordic American Smokeless, but I'm sure they did focus groups before they started selling it.

What I don't understand is where this concept came from that, if it doesn't taste like candy, Americans won't like it? I don't think the manufacturers have figured it out either and that's why they are still test marketing.

After all, Swedish Match, the largest Swedish snus manufacturer in the world, said in their 2007 annual report that the United States is now their largest snus market. Even more interesting, SM also makes chew for the American Market: Red Man and a few others.
And Swedish Match's chew sales in the US are declining!

It's a mystery. Meanwhile, you just keep experimenting...I still am, happy snusing, and thanks for the feedback!

Oh, and just to clarify, Alex suggested the Klondike I believe as I've never tried it. And I'm glad you like the OffRoad, but Ice Fruit is a flavor from Jakobsson's, not V2, the folks that make OffRoad.

Big news coming out on V2 this year. I'm not aloud to talk about it yet but it's exciting for everyone, not just OffRoad and Phantom fans.

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Jeremy...

I don't know if I ever suggested this to you before, but you may want to try V2's Offroad snus. They make the most flavored snuses in Norway (Swedish Method), have amazing low TSNA's (carcinogens), and is much too mild for my taste so you might like it!

If I did suggest that already/you tried it already, forgive me: sleep deprivation.

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Jeremy said...

Alex/MR UNZ,

Hi again. Sorry for the mishaps in my recent posts, as I didn't proofread as well as I should have. The General is a 4/10, not 20. When I'm comparing the snus to wine, I acutally meant the Klondike was a 2$ and Swedish/Camel is the 200... Okay so Camel is 400, haha :) No but seriously, just by looking at the pouches, the swedish snus is very moist and fresh looking compared to the dry, sawdust textured shitty cherry from Klondike.

You know when you get the build up of saliva for the first time usually 20 minutes after it's in and it hits your tastebuds and you get the first taste. Well with cherry... I can NOT STAND that taste. With General and Icemint, it was rough at first but I got used to it, I still don't keep those in very long, but spice and frost, shit I keep those in for like 2+ hours sometimes.

Okay, so I didn't go with the CatchDry, but I went with the Deluxe Edition from OffRoad with all 5 of those delicious looking flavors. I will let you know how everything goes in about a week. Untill then, so long!

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Good luck, Jeremy! Don't worry about the ratings....not to confuse things, but there's a wine out of California called Two Buck Chuck because it's only $2 a bottle....but it tastes better than some $25 wines! Created quite the uproar. People with relatives and friends in CA having them ship it all over the country....I got a hold of some. It was not bad!

I think you'll like the OffRoad. If you know anyone in Ohio or Georgia, see if they'll send you a can of Triumph original.

The first portion tasted really sweet (to me because I'm used to the Swedish natural taste). But once I got used to it, it was not strong enough for me but it had a nice peach flavor that was not overpowering.

Swedish Match private labels it for Lorillard so it is manufactured to Swedish Specs. Lorillard determined the taste and markets it in the US. Right now they're only test marketing in two states. I am suspicious about the nicotine level, though. Hopefully I'll have an answer tomorrow.

They make a mint too but based on what you've said, I don't think you'll like it.....but I keep the Ice Fruit in for 2 hours so for $4 it might be worth it.

What scares me about Camel SNUS, Marlboro "snus" and even Klondike at this point is that I don't know what I'm putting in my mouth.

With Camel and Marlboro, I know I'm getting a third the quantity for more money...not a good buy.

With Camel, taking them at their word, I am getting 8mg of nicotine, the sames as Swedish regular snus and I did not get the shakes when I tried it. With Marlboro, I know I'm getting 20% less nicotine which is not good.

With Camel SNUS, I know it pasteurized which is good, but I don't know how or for how long. With Marlboro "snus", it's air dried but not pasteurized. I have no idea with either of them how low the TSNA (carcinogen) levels are. And I have NO idea what else is in either of them!

I think I mentioned somewhere here but in my post to Reynolds America and RJRT, that the TSNA levels in American chewing tobacco ranged from for around 8 to 169!

The OffRoad Snus you just bought has a TSNA level of .07. Ettan Swedish Snus was around 3.5 if I remember correctly: it's in the article.

And after it APPEARS (may have nothing to do with it) the Camel Frost made me sick after using it all day, I want to know what I'm putting in my mouth.

Big article in the paper that millions of smokers switched to Light cigarettes because they had less tar. They do in tests, but when you actually smoke one, it was determined there was really no difference.

The FDA mandated food labels contain detailed information on fat, types of fat, sugar, and carbs for a reason. People today are different than 100 years ago when they would buy meat off unrefrigerated tables sitting in the hot sun.

If they're going to eat or smoke or stick something in their mouth that they know has things in it not good for them, they want to know and make informed choices.

May sound hypocritical coming from a 30+ year former Camel cigarette smoker, but I went from filtered to Turkish Gold to Lights and finally to Eclipse before I switched to snus.

The food companies get it...I don't think the Tobacco Companies do yet.

As to the light cigarette lawsuit, it will probably be dismissed: they do have a warning label mandated by the government on each pack. That's been grounds for dismissing suits like this before.

As to Klondike, taste aside, all I know is what I've seen in press releases. I don't know how they really make it, what the TSNA levels are, and what else is in it.
Verdicts out there.

If H.R. 1108 putting all tobacco products under FDA control was for the same reasons and with the same outcome as the Swedish Government is doing it, I won't oppose it.

But as it is, that's not their agenda is and they are so overwhelmed trying to ensure the safety of meat, poultry, and everything else Congress dumped on them, reduced-harm tobacco and quality of tobacco products is not going to be at the top of their list.

Let me know how you like the OffRoad!

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ

Alex said...

Howdy again Jeremy, Mr. UNZ,

I will respond to both your last posts later. I just wanted drop a quick note to let you both know Camel does have an official website for it's snus. I won't post the link but if you just google the words "camel snus" it will be the first link on your search results. Also on the Camel snus homepage there is the warning " THIS PRODUCT IS NOT A SAFE ALTERNATIVE TO CIGARETTES." I noticed also on the side of the Camel tins in very small letters is the warning "This product may cause mouth cancer." That's not good and I dont like the way Camel is so sneaky about where they placed this warning. If you aren't specifically looking for it you would never see it.

Sincerely,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex!

I appreciate the apology but in this case it totally unnecessary.

In my article Camel SNUS and Marlboro Snus: US Tobacco Users Being Made FOOLS of by Big Tobacco: Part 3 of 3
where I "talked" about Camel, I not only quoted and responded directly to what was on their website but put links to it as well.

Anyone who has been following my articles from the beginning (Right hand top column The Unloadinging Zone, under the title HOT TOPICS, the First Link saying SNUS! Table of Contents... leads to a mini-table of contents of JUST my SNUS articles so you won't have to go through that monster of a main table of contents below it...another reason I'm moving snus to it's own website).

Even I can't imbed a hyperlink in a comment, but the URL to the Official RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company Camel SNUS website is http://www.snuscamel.com.

You do have to join to get in but it's free.

Do me ONE Favor though to enhance your experience:

If you don't have time to read the whole series, copy and paste the below URL into your browser and read it BEFORE you visit Camel SNUS.


http://theunloadingzone.blogspot.com/2008/08/camel-snus-and-marlboro-snus-us-tobacco.html

Then Come Back and leave YOUR comments and opinions on the content and how they present it on The Official Camel SNUS website.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

PS....

Alex, I must be driving you CRAZY with what and what not to post :-)!

Sorry!

In the future, if you have a doubt (because I do have reasons for what URL's I will and will not post), included it and I'll just delete the URL before I publish your post if it's inappropriate.

Thanks,

Mr. UNZ

Alex said...

Hi Mr UNZ, Jeremy,


I first want to say that I've noticed the Camel has several different warnings on it's tins. One is the warning that it may cause mouth cancer and the other warning is that it may cause gum disease and tooth loss. I'm getting the feeling Camel is a dangerous product. I want to say too I've noticed quality control issues. Some of the tins I've opened have only had 13-14 pouches in them while a couple had 16. I also got one tin that had 4 pouches with the ends not sealed and the loose tobacco had fallen out. I notice too that sometimes the pouches are loose, like half filled and other times the pouches are overloaded. They look like stuffed sausages. It seems to me the tastes varies on too. One pouch will be almost too sweet for even me while another will be bitter and tasteless. In all fairness to the Klondike, Jeremy, Camel pouches are as dry and saw dusty as they come. I am not totally satisfied with the Klondike but it's the only snus other than Camel that I bear to put in my mouth. I ended up throwing away 5 tins of General, 1 of the Göteborgs Rapé White and 1 Triumph. I live in Georgia Mr. UNZ and did buy a tin of the Triumph. It like the others was way too strong for me. I hated throwing those away but I couldn't use them and didn't want them just sitting around reminding me of the money I wasted. The bottom line is I'm looking for a non American made snus that most compares in taste (sweet) and mildness to the Camel. I've reached a dead end here. From what I read on the buysnus site the Göteborgs Rapé White was the sweetest and mildest they have to offer and again that was much too strong and bitter for me. I appreciate anything you guys might come up with in the future. Please let me know how it goes with the OffRoad Jeremy. Point noted on posting links Mr Unz and don't worry about driving me crazy. The payment on my reality check was stopped a long time ago. :) Thanks again guys.

Sincerely,

Alex.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex!

I almost cried when I saw how much snus you threw out. If there's a next time, put a list of what you have, how many are left in each tin, if you've been refrigerating them, and leave a comment asking for offers. I've seen that done before or trades for different types of snus's. This way you won't lose all your money.

On the new website, I'm going to have a snus exchange section just for that purpose. I've only thrown out two cans of snus: the original Camel SNUS I bought a year ago after trying the General portion and a can of OffRoad Vanilla that (to me) was absolutely tasteless. If I had more I didn't like, I would have tried trading or selling. I can't even bring myself to throw out the can of Camel Frost that made me sick (possibly). It's in the fridge and once it expires (like tomorrow)then I can throw out the SNUS with a clear conscience. I paid $5.49 for that stupid snus! I'll probably keep the tin for my collection but that's a lot of money for a tin of questionable SNUS.

I've tried everything you have and if they're all still too strong, I really think you'll like the OffRoad. It's made by V2 in Norway and with one exception I'm not allowed to talk about yet, I'm not a fan of Norwegian snus because for me, it is WAY too mild....meaning it may be perfect for you.

I'm even going to go out on a limb and suggest, if you want a high nicotine snus, try the General Sterk. It was made for the Norwegian market and, while not quite as mild as the OffRoad on the tobacco taste, it was still way too mild for me. It's a white portion and has a hint of blueberry.

I didn't count the number of mini-portions in my Camel SNUS Frost tin, and I did notice the difference in design: long and thin, to make them look bigger. But when the person behind the counter finally found me a can that hadn't expired, I didn't see any visible quality flaws as you described. Or (as I got used to the taste...didn't say I liked it, but used to it) it seemed pretty consistent unless that first one that really, really burned (not tingled) was faulty.

It may have been a batch made while the quality control manager was out having a cigarette :-). Or it could be because of excessive heat during transportation or in the store you got it from.

Or not. No one has ever mentioned that, but any current or former Camel SNUS users that experienced quality issues like Alex did, leave a comment here. It will interesting to see if people in other markets experienced the same thing you did, Alex.

Sincerely,

Mr UNZ

Alex said...

Howdy Mr. UNZ,

Yeah I almost didn't post about all that snus I threw away. I thought It might bring tears to your eyes. You know the thought of sending it to you or someone else that might want it didn't hit me after I had thrown it away, sorry =( Four of the tins were unopened, still sealed. I do keep the snus refrigerated. If I try anymore snus I don't want I'll post it as you suggested. I have no idea what Camel is doing. They sent me 2 more coupons for free snus. That makes 7 or 8 now. I've lost count. Sometimes they send 1, sometimes 2. I have no idea how they got my name or address. I've never purchased a Camel product and any tobacco product I've purchased I've paid cash. I've never used a credit or debit card so they couldn't have traced me that way. Without me going back and reading all the posts can you tell me again where to get the OffRoad? I'd appreicate it. I will go to your link on the Camel snus and get back with you on that.

Thanks again,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Aaron.

It's OK about the thrown out snus. My grieving period is over but trading or selling snus you don't like for something else is not uncommon. There will be a place for it on my uber-snus website...that's about 2 weeks away.

A more than a few internet resellers sell OffRoad. BuySnus I believe is one of their biggest dealers. Just click on the banner on the blog (you won't get the discount because you bought from them before but it will take you to their site). They had a special on OffRoad..I don't know if its still going on.

Sincerely,

UNZ

Jeremy said...

I'm giving up on the search for the snus for my tastebuds. Alex I think we are too much alike. I got 10 cans of Offroad, and I am not pleased with any of them. Strawberry is garbage, Hot Honey is okay, Brandy is terrible... I just can't get over the taste of tobacco, I can't keep one in longer then 20-30 minutes. With Camel you don't get the tobacco taste, and since I've never developed the habit of smoking ciggerates, I believe that is why I can't stand the taste of tobacco. So... despite the the fact I believe tobacco companies have conspired with scientists-for-hire to hide the health risks of their products, I will continue to use that, just at a low rate :)

I will definitely keep in touch with you two!

Cheers,
Jeremy

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Oh Jeremy,

If you don't LIKE the taste of tobacco; if you NEVER developed a cigarette habit, then for God's sake don't use Camel SNUS or ANY snus...or any other tobacco product for that matter!

Why are you taking ANY health risks by using ANY kind of snus if you don't like tobacco and more importantly, are not addicted to nicotine yet?

Try sugar free candy or mints if you just like to have something sweet in your mouth. You can find ones as mild as Camel Frost. Go to a specialty candy store where they have a huge selection in jars and let you sample.

Some snus is less harmful than others. Other snuses are much more dangerous than others. But if you're not hooked on nicotine yet, don't use ANY snus.

Reduced harm tobacco products mean just that: the harm is reduced, not eliminated.

In the case of Swedish Snus, the cancer risks are practically eliminated but while nicotine doesn't cause cancer, it does have dangers of it's own.

I'm an advocate of Swedish Snus for people like me who ARE nicotine-addicted, like the taste of tobacco and can not or will not stop because it's the LEAST harmful tobacco product in the world today.

The best health option for us would be to quit, but we either can't, or frankly don't want to BECAUSE we like the taste of tobacco. And in America, at least for a while longer, we do have freedom of personal choice. But you notice I said sugar free candy before.

There is lots of junk foods with harmful levels of a variety of things in them. But this is America (at least this week). The FDA doesn't ban everything; but they do require on food products full disclosure on amounts of fat, sugar, sodium, carbs, etc so at least people can make an INFORMED choice.

What they do with that information is their own business but at least they know what they are putting in their mouths.

We have no idea WHAT is in ANY American made product calling itself snus. Camel SNUS could turn out to be the safest snus on the planet...or not. WE DON'T KNOW because the tobacco companies don't have to TELL us.

If FDA regulation of American Snus was for the same purpose as the Swedish Governments, and the tobacco companies were REQUIRED BY LAW to release TSNA levels, nicotine levels, and other information of value so the consumer could be an informed one, I would be all for FDA control.

Unfortunately, I don't see that being the agenda.

In your case, don't use any snus while you still have the chance. Camel WILL up the nicotine as will all the American snus manufacturers when cigarettes are banned. You probably WILL become nicotine addicted.

Do you think 30+ years ago I started out smoking 1 1/2 to two packs of cigarettes a day? Of course not. Just a cigarette here, a cigarette there....

But as time goes by, your brain will crave the nicotine more and over time, your use will go up.

Is it REALLY worth spending $5.49 for 15 pouches of whatever is in Camel SNUS if you don't have to?

If I added up all the money I had spent on cigarettes and bought Microsoft stock when it first went public.....

Quit Jeremy. Quit now while you still can. There are enough risks in life without adding to them if you don't have to.

I hope you visit again and read this. If not, I am so sorry.

Sincerely,

Mr Unz

Anonymous said...

I'm from Texas too (DFW area) and was wondering where you buy yours from because I dont buy stuff over the internet.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Anonymous in DFW,

The over the counter selection of Swedish snus is pretty limited in the US right now: Swedish Match sells 5 of their snus's over the counter in less than 20 states.

But Texas is one of them!

Go to my Nov 7, 2008 post: Stores in Texas that sell Swedish Snus over the counter. It lists the current ones as of Nov 1st 2008.

I buy all my snus over the Internet now because the selection is around 150 different Swedish snus's that I can think of of.

You do pay shipping but it's the same price or even cheaper even with the shipping.

A can of General portion will cost you $4.99 at Up in Smoke, in Frisco.

Over the Internet, I buy rolls (10 cans in a roll). With General portion, that breaks down to about$3.80/can. Add shipping and it's about $.50/can cheaper.

If you only want a can or two, hit your local store on the list.

If you want to buy rolls or choose from over 30 times the selection, buy Internet.

Sincerely,

Mr Unz

Anonymous said...

Hello,
I am an american living in the philippines. I am a snuff user from the 70's when I was a teen. I am now 51. Trying to find any chew here in the phils is next to impossible! But then I found www.northerner.com and discovered the wonderfulness of sewdish snus. I have to say I only wish I new of them sooner. My goodness what a differnece, even if I were to return to the US i would still order from them. The taste is wonderful and the size is so much begger and the price is cheaper. How can you go wrong with that?

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hello Anonymous from the Philippines!

I'm 50 and traveled in the Philippines during the 1970's! What a wonderful country it was, and hopefully still is.

Amen to Swedish Snus/Snuff! I just beta launched on new super-snus website called www.snuscentral.com. It's almost done but is massive compared to my poor blog.

Come join us!

Sincerely, Mr. UNZ

Anonymous said...

Camel has now expanded their snus nationally. I get it in Kansas City. I love it. I think Camel really has perfected the taste.

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

With all due respect, the Swedes perfected the taste of Real Snus a long time ago. The new Camel Snus is just another version of dog food; not an upgrade to steak.

It's still overpriced, gives you too little snus for what they charge...strike that: too little "some kind of tobacco and God knows what else" for what they charge, doesn't last anywhere near as long as Swedish Snus, is still watered down compared to Swedish Snus, and still is way too sweet because of the sugar they add to induce the hit on your blood sugar to keep you hooked like they do with cigarettes.

Either you were introduced to snus through the so-called American-Style like Camel SNUS and all the rest.......or you work for RJ Reynolds.

If the first case, then I do really feel sorry for you since if you only know American-Style so-called snus and have been using it for any length of time, it will be more difficult for you to enjoy Swedish Snus right off the bat.

It will taste "too strong" for you at first: not because it is (that's what snus is SUPPOSED to taste like)..but because you've grown accustom to the weak, sickly sweet, watered-down American-Style flavor. Try Swedish Snus mini portions first (at best, that's what Camel SNUS is by weight), move up to mild Regular portions, and then experiment with the hundreds of other choices.

They're all cheaper than Camel SNUS, give you generally 10 more pouches per can then Camel SNUS, you'll know how much nicotine you're getting in writing, and you will be using a genuine Reduced Harm Tobacco product.

On the other hand, if you do work for RJ Reynolds, then PLEASE stop hiding behind "Anonymous", Register at SnusCENTRAL.org, and use the American Snus Reviews section or the Manufacturers Section on the SnusCENTRAL forum to comment.

I would love to have a Real Camel SNUS spokesperson to talk to and I think the Members would find it fascinating as well!

You're more than welcome and we won't edit or not publish anything you have to say. Just so long as you identify yourself as working for RJRT, I would welcome your comments.

If RJRT is truly proud of it's Camel SNUS, then step forward publicly as RJRT and discuss it.

But anonymous posts.....that's why we don't have them at SnusCENTRAL.
You could genuinely love Camel SNUS....or you could be a marketing shill. Who knows?

I'm wondering why you commented HERE since the article is now posted on SnusCENTRAL.org and can't be accessed from The Unloading Zone anymore?

Why not comment on SnusCENTRAL...I've very clearly said that ALL snus-related articles on or after Dec 5 2008 would only be posted at SnusCENTRAL.org.....and my older snus posts, like this one, are only available by clicking the Read More link above by taking you to the article on SnusCENTRAL?

As I said above, if you're genuine, than I feel sorry for you. If you're not, what have you got to hide?

Be like that Comments poster on Feb 15,2008, who started out "I work for Camel" and then made his point. I cheerfully published it without hesitation and wished he/she had come back.

Maybe they'll register as a manufacturer on SnusCENTRAL.org. I really hope they do.

Sincerely,

"When it comes to snus, I'm now":

Mr. UNZ
@ http://snuscentral.org/snusnus/mr-unz-reports.html

Brandon said...

Okay, so I have officially tried my first-ever Snus product, and yes, it was the Camel brand.

I am not a smoker, nor is my body used to nicotine in any way, so as a result, I am able to receive a slight buzz off of Camel, even as light as people say it is.

My favorite flavor thus far is "Mellow". I tried "Frost" and was by NO MEANS impressed. I won't be finishing that can. I'm already on my second can of "Mellow" though! :)

Now, on to my question. I really want to try some "real" Snus, but I'm not sure what I should invest my time and money into.... Is there anyone here that have tried Camel's Mellow that has also tried some "real" Snus?

I'm rather interested in trying chocolate-flavored snus.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

NOTE: The Following User Comments Did Not Publish...thank you Google. As I believe and practice the First Amendment, I feel obligated to re-post them.
...................................

Dennis Neal said...
I went ahead and tried some of your hyped-up Swedish snus. The stuff smells like tea bags that a dog took a leak on and that were shut up in the dark for a week, and the taste is miserable.
I vastly prefer the clean tobacco smell of Camel snus and the satisfaction it gives in the nicotine department. I went into the Swedish snus with an open mind and anticipation, but as stated above, find the product miserable and disgusting.

February 8, 2009 12:31 PM


Anonymous said...
I went ahead and followed the links to the Swedish snus and tried a sampler pack with an open mind and anticipation.
Let me say this: the stuff smells like tea bags that three dogs took a leak on and that have been shut up in a dark warm place for a week. The taste is miserable.
I vastly prefer the clean tobacco smell and satisfaction provided by Camel snus over the putrid mess that they are selling in Sweden. Thanks for trying to hype this product, but it is just miserable and probably unsanitary.

February 8, 2009 12:35 PM




Mr. Unloadingzone Said:

Dennis, all I can say is thank you for a good belly laugh after a long day!

I did post your numerous near-identical comments on all my Camel Snus articles you submitted them for.

How long have you been working for R.J Reynolds...or are you interviewing with them and your incredibly silly comments all over The Unloading Zone are part of your resume?

If the latter is the case, I truly wish you good luck. The job market is VERY bad nationwide and any port in a storm..so long as it's legal.

Camel SNUS is still legal..for now. As are cigarettes...for now. So good luck with the interview and I hope your repeated comment lands you the job! Honestly!

If the former is true and you do work for R.J. Reynolds, say Hi to Susan Ivey and the gang for me. I really do admire her vision, if not her solution.

She was way ahead of the pack on this one. I still can't figure out Camel Orbs though..unless they are a throw away to keep that disgusting, can't taste any tobacco, over-priced, have no clue what's in it, made me physically ill, Camel SNUS.

I really shouldn't address your comments but I'm still laughing and my General Ekstra Sterk snus is still going strong..after an hour (unlike Camel SNUS whose website accurately states it lasts "up to" a half hour.)

I'll pretend to take your comment seriously and address some of the points you try and make.

#1: Someone with your last name living in Norfolk did buy a Swedish Match Tasting Kit on January 9th so I'll assume it was you or for you. Hmmm. Hurts my "employed by R.J. Reynolds" argument it seems. On the other hand, your blog profile states you are in Government Public Affairs. The tobacco industry does have a huge lobby in Washington.

On the other hand, like so many Americans sadly, your palate may have been spoiled by long term use of Camel SNUS. I mean that seriously; read my article on SnusCENTRAL.org (not .com) about the secret to the "American Taste" in snus. It's sugar, just like cigarettes. Anywhere from 8% to 18%of a cigarette is sugar. I describe the effects in detail in the article, but that's why American Snus is so sickly sweet. Sugar. And lets not forget nicotine addiction. American Snus manufacturers have a documented history of manipulating nicotine levels to keep you using their products.

2. Swedish Snus is regulated as a Food Product by the Swedish Government. It is the most sanitary, Government-monitored, tobacco manufacturing process on the planet. That is documented and no one on the planet disputes it. Not even R.J. Reynolds.

To this day we have no clue what is in Camel SNUS, how it is made, how high the carcinogen level is, or how safe it is.

I do know two things: Camel is emphatic on the snuscamel.com website that you must not EVER swallow the pouch. Why? What is it made of? We don't know.

You are correct in calling the Swedish snus portion a tea bag. It IS a tea bag. Same material. Not advisable to swallow, especially on an empty stomach, but not dangerous. I have no idea what the Camel pouch or any other American Snus pouch is made of. They won't tell us.

I know from experience if I break a Camel Frost pouch in half, what comes out looks more like dirt than tobacco. More disgustingly, when I did break it in half, it was as if someone sprayed room freshener in my face: The smell was choking and lingered in my office for about 5 minutes. Try it. What do they flavor Camel SNUS with anyway? We don't know because they won't tell us.

3. You are correct Swedish Snus smells entirely different from American Snus. What you forget is Swedish Snus is REAL snus with a 200 year history. Camel SNUS was only invented 3 years ago.

What you call a "clean smell" is to a real snus user, clean as in scented air freshener. To a real snus user, American Snus smells artificial and choking.

Especially Camel Frost. I don't know which SNUS you prefer; I used Frost because it's their most popular.

I wish you had visited our Snus and Smokeless Tobacco Information and Social website, SnusCENTRAL.org, before buying your snus.

Assuming you are legitimate, there is plenty of advise for American Snus users on how to transition to real snus. You could even go on the Forum and ask for advice from the Members...and read their introductions. A good many of them, like myself, discovered Swedish Snus through Camel SNUS so you would be in good company.

If you are a Camel SNUS user for any amount of time, the Swedish Match tasting kit would have been like going from a White Owl cigar straight to a Cuban Cigar. The taste would be too strong for you.

First of all, the kit you bought consists of Regular/Large snus's. While much cheaper than Camel SNUS, they actually weigh almost twice as much: 1 gram as opposed to Camel's 0.6 grams.

Notice I said weighs and not "has almost twice as much snus in it". Why? Because we have no idea how much tobacco is in Camel SNUS. We both know that it is dry while the Swedish snus is moist...Swedish snus is generally 47% to 50% water.
And that's how snus is SUPPOSED to be.

I would have recommended you start out with a flavored Mini Portion.

Swedish Match makes a Mini Portion specifically for the American market called General Mini Mint. We can't carry it because our Snus Store is based in Sweden.

It is available over-the-counter at 12 tobacco stores in Virginia and 2 in Washington DC.

The Mini Mint is the same weight as the Camel SNUS and is much sweeter than I personally like, but you would probably really enjoy it. Mini Mint was designed to be an upgrade for Camel Frost users.

It's under $5 a can. If you're interested, email me at Mr.UNZ@snuscentral.org and I'll give you the addresses of all the tobacco stores that carry it in your area.

Perhaps your...angry, inaccurate, yet colorful comments stem from feeling cheated out of the price of the tasting kit you purchased, I can relate. I've thrown out some Swedish Snus's I just didn't like the taste of and wasn't happy about it. But unlike Camels three take it or leave it SNUS choices, there are well over a hundred different Swedish Snus's. Experimentation is to be expected.

Conversely, I threw out every brand of American Snus I tortured myself with in order to do the taste test on American Snus. In fact, I still have three cans of Skoal Snus; all three flavors they make, that I just can't bring myself to put in my mouth.

I may change my mind years down the road and that's OK. Skoal and Marlboro snus do not require refrigeration, do not have expiration dates, and are designed, I believe, for nuclear war survivalists. The Skoal Snus will taste the same 10 years from now as it does today.

If this is not yet another R.J. Reynolds propaganda attempt, then I do owe you an apology and I really do feel for you. When I did the taste test of Camel Frost, I spit out the first portion in horror. But I forced myself to keep using it and only it for the taste test. No Swedish Snus.

Nicotine is insidious especially when combined with sugar to induce a glucose high as well. While the first portion was disgusting, by the 6th portion it wasn't quite as bad.

True, I had to chain-snus it to keep my nicotine cravings satisfied and because it pooped out after about 15-20 minutes, buy I actually began thinking if the PACT Act (HR 1108) was re-introduced in Congress this year, passed, and I was cut off from imported tobacco of any kind (except cigars), that I could survive on Camel SNUS. That was until I had a bad reaction and became very ill.

It was then I realized I was putting something in my mouth which consisted of something of which I had no idea. I'm diabetic: maybe it was the sugar. Maybe it was a coincidence. But I never experienced that feeling before and I never did again as I immediately stopped using the Camel Frost. Who knows? Because THEY WON'T TELL US WHAT'S IN IT.

Arrogant? Corporate disdain for their brand-loyal customers? Absolutely. Read my interview with the SVP and General Counsel of Lorillard where he outright refuses to confirm, deny, or discuss the nicotine levels of Triumph Snus and the information I had that they were manipulating the nicotine levels.

Unfortunately, mega-corporations from the banking industry to the tobacco industry still feel they are exempt from ethics.

I'm a conservative and no fan at all of Big Government (sorry, nothing personal) but I am totally disgusted with corporate irresponsibility and a Republican Party that veered left of me a long time ago and is reduced to pandering for votes.

Americans who, like me, never heard of snus until Camel and Marlboro began test marketing are being duped. Having no frame of reference, American Tobacco is attempting to lead us down a health, financial, and taste road built on lies and slick marketing. In short, as of today, American Snus is a sham. A Scam. It's not criminal but it should be.

And as a loyal Camel SNUS user, you should be careful what you say about Swedish Snus: Camel goes out of their way in trying to link SNUS to Swedish Snus on snuscamel.com. Didn't you ever wonder why? Don't ask R.J. Reynolds: THEY WON'T TELL YOU.

Hoping to receive your email soon, I remain,

Sincerely yours (if you're not scamming me),

Mr. Unloadingzone here; Mr. UNZ; Activist Snus Guru, at SnusCentral.org (and .com)

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Brandon! Welcome back!

Have you been to SnusCENTRAL.org yet? There's lots of advice in the SnusCENTRAL Forum, in the Snus Reviews Section, and more. You have to join to post in the Forum (don't worry, it's free :-) ) but there are a lot of ex-Camel users who would be happy to help you! I know they would definitely be interested in your experience with the Camel Mellow. In fact, we have a Member Review section for Swedish AND American Snus. It would be great if you wrote something about your experiences and thoughts on Camel Mellow and Frost.

Don't worry; no one is going to jump on you for using American Snus...too many of us have been there. Just read the introductions in the Forum and you'll see you are in good company. Don't forget to leave your own introduction.

Camel Mellow isn't available here yet.....they are too busy trying to give away the expired Frost and Spice when you buy a pack of Camel cigarettes to stock it here yet. I can't wait to try it and review it for myself. The Frost almost killed me, but I'm real curious to see what they changed with the Mellow.

It was luck I found our email so quickly. This is my first time to this email account in about a week. We have a Contact Us form for Members at snuscentral.org. Select Mr. UNZ from the drop down and send me your email address. I'll send you my direct email address. You've been with me a long time. This email I check constantly throughout the day.

Don't forget to go to the Badges section and grab a Founding Member Badge: The Badge section is under Member Area but will be invisible to you until you are a Member.

I'm moving the snus topic off The Unloading Zone to a MUCH more robust SnusCENTRAL. I really look forward to seeing you over at SnusCENTRAL.org! Please join us.

Sincerely,

UNZ

Alex said...

Howdy Mr UNZ,

In regards to Dennis' posts I'll say what I have in the past. The Camel snus is so sweet it's like cotton candy so if someone uses the Camel and likes it the Swedish, while superior, is just too strong for them. It's hard to call the Camel snus because it is in no way similar to the Swedish products. I was able to get used to the Triumph mint and it's pretty good but I don't use the Triumph the same days I use the Camel or it's too strong. I have to get the Camel taste totally out of my taste buds for a day. I only use Camel because I haven't paid for any in at least 6 months and I have 4 tins of it now. I don't know what's going on but Camel continues to send me 1-3 coupons for free tins of snus every week. As I said this has been going on at least 6 months.

Sincerely,

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Alex!

I responded to Dennis's comment under the 'Camel Snus?? Dear Lord, Have We Got Work to Do' article. As usual, my response was an article unto itself :-).

I wish I had read your comment first. I could have cut my response by a third by just posting your comment underneath mine!

In fact, I may take Dennis's comments and all the ones that followed and turn it into an article. I think it deserves to be one.

Hope you are enjoying SnusCENTRAL! Thanks for staying with The Unloading Zone too.

Sincerely,

UNZ

Alex said...

Howdy again Mr UNZ,

Anyone that thinks Camel "snus" is superior to Swedish snus must have been abducted by aliens and zapped with a stupidity ray, twice. The Swedish product is not only far superior but as you stated the portions are much more generous. I'll take 25 of those moist Swedish 'tea bags' any day over the 15 dried out little bean bags of Camel. These people have no clue as to quality or taste. The only taste Camel has is that of sugar. As I stated it's tastes like cotton candy, almost like pure sugar. Other than that there is no taste. So these Camel fans must be sweet freaks. I've stated I use some Camel because I get coupons for free tins of it weekly and I like a sweet fix sometimes. I would not pay for the Camel. That has to be the biggest rip-off of any tobacco product on the market. Five bucks for 15 of those tiny dried out sugar pouches, are you kidding me?

G'day to you Mr UNZ.

Alex

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

Hi Again, Alex!

I enjoyed your colorful comments on Camel SNUS. I hope you are posting them under Member Reviews>American Snus>RJ Reynolds. I know everyone else would enjoy them too!

I don't believe Dennis was hit with a Stupidity Ray though. There is a difference between stupidity and being uninformed. SnusCENTRAL was not only designed for those of us who love Swedish Snus. You and I had to struggle to find factual information on Swedish and American snus in the beginning. One of my biggest goals was to be that resource for the 46MM+ Americans still smoking cigarettes and people whose only snus experience has been American snus. Almost all these these don't know what to expect from real snus.

Dennis pushed the envelop a little as he seems to be a non-tobacco user before SNUS. I stand by my advice to him: if he's not nicotine addicted yet, don't use any snus from anywhere and go with mints or sugar free candy.

I received another comment yesterday which is under Snus Review #2 (which I would have totally missed with Comment Moderation, Dennis).

This gentleman is a 10 year American Chew user whose friend in Sweden convinced him to try General White. He was also concerned about the smell. Unlike Dennis; probably because he was a long-time Chew user, while he didn't love the General White, he didn't hate it either and was going to press on with other Swedish Snus's.

My response to him is below his comment.

Both he and Dennis reminded me why I was doing this in the first place. I wanted a place for all snus users to be able to find information, share information, and be able to interact, not just with me like on The Unloading Zone with my IM widget, but with all the Members.

What I didn't want though, was it to scare off people new to snus thinking we were a bunch of snus elitists. Our love and experience with Swedish Snus can lead to us attacking the wrong people.

My beef is not with someone like Dennis: It's with R.J. Reynolds, Philip Morris/Altria, Lorillard, Nordic American, Skoal and all the rest who disappointed me. It's also with European snus manufacturers like Wise/Oomph.
People like Dennis and the Chew User I mentioned are why I do this. If Marlboro Snus were replaced tomorrow with Philip Morris 1847, I would be the first one promoting it and them. I WISH American snus was something to be proud of. I'm sad and yes, very angry that it's deliberately not.

Helping newcomers to Swedish snus and snus in general become informed consumers without having to spend weeks searching and verifying each conflicting piece like we did when we first started using snus is as important to me if not more so in some ways than preaching to the choir.

Personally, I couldn't agree more with your very clear depiction of Camel SNUS. However, that's our personal taste. We were fortunate enough to have discovered Swedish Snus before American snus had been available for very long so our taste-buds weren't ruined.

I've said many times but for the grace of God and a Swedish Match tobacco retailer being 5 minutes from my house, I would be using Camel SNUS or some other American Snus today.

If in the end Dennis or anyone else just can't kick the American Snus habit, at least they know the facts now. That's a lot more than we could say when we started...at least me! :-)

The Member Snus Review Section for American snus is not only for negative opinions. Dennis or any of the other writers of pro-American snus comments are welcome and encouraged to share their thoughts publicly on SnusCENTRAL.org. They are not going to be hunted down and force-fed Swedish Snus until they recant.

I admit I'm better at that as Mr. UNZ than I am as Mr. Unloading Zone. Maybe because The Unloading Zone was designed for a different purpose...my opinions on everything; than SnusCENTRAL was.

The Members there picked that ball up too. Our Forum is extremely helpful to new snusers or American snusers. That Snus Guy's Review comparing Camel SNUS to Swedish Snus WAS unbiased despite his personal feelings. And factual.
That's one of the reasons I'm so glad to have him: I could never write a review like that. Well, I could but it would be incredibly hard.

Our styles of writing are very different which is another reason I'm so glad he came on board. I want as many different perspectives as possible..as long as they're not just secret propaganda from a snus or SNUS company. I even allow and encourage propaganda as long as the author identifies that they work for a particular snus manufacturer. They can have their own Forum Section if they like. I expect them to be loyal to their product. We of course, can agree or disagree but it will always be kept friendly. And maybe we'll learn something too.

Not meant as a criticism of you, Alex. More of a reality check for me. Either here or on SnusCENTRAL, you should post exactly what you want to say. This is food for thought, though. For all of us.

Sincerely, UNZ

Sov said...

Can you actually swallow the stuff for hours on end?

Mr. UnloadingZone said...

I do! Swedish Snus doesn't create as much saliva as Chewing Tobacco or Dip does. I don't find it acidic at all.

I did swallow a pouch once on an empty stomach. That made me a little nauseous.

NOTE: it was an accident: snus pouches are not designed or intended to be swallowed.

Sincerely,

Mr. UNZ
http://SnusCentral.org

Mrs. Unloadingzone

Mrs. Unloadingzone
"The Girl of my Dreams"